"I have the right to E-Mail"

[Shawkorrr]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Luke-Angel-Teenager-Banned-from-America-For-Life-For-Sending-Abusive-Email-To-Barack-Obama/Article/201009215726177?lpos=UK_News_News_Your_Way_Region_1&lid=NewsYourWay_ARTICLE_15726177_Luke_Angel%3A_Teenager_Banned_from_America_For_Life_For_Sending_Abusive_Email_To_Barack_Obama_

[mmchardy]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Luke-Angel-Teenager-Banned-from-America-For-Life-For-Sending-Abusive-Email-To-Barack-Obama/Article/201009215726177?lpos=UK_News_News_Your_Way_Region_1&lid=NewsYourWay_ARTICLE_15726177_Luke_Angel%3A_Teenager_Banned_from_America_For_Life_For_Sending_Abusive_Email_To_Barack_Obama_

 

So has this been verified as True, or is this just some Rumor. It says FEDS told British Police. Clue number one, the U.S. Federal Government does not speak to local police , they speak to British security agencies like Scotland Yard or M.I. 5.

 

Also they won't dispatch local police to his home, they would instead have brought him in for questioning to see if he was a threat , and only if the statements were of an immediate threat (or sounded like they were) This one is a Hoax, I put the Onion up to this one. I must find out more on this one and see how far it goes.

[mmchardy]

GO GO OBAMANATION!!! <--- sarcasm... notice how close Obamanation is to abomination?

 

I do notice something alright .

 

This is indeed a farce

 

http://gizmodo.com/5637203/drunk-email-to-obama-gets-british-teen-banned-from-america-for-life?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+gizmodo/full+%28Gizmodo%29&utm_content=Google+Reader

 

Retraction by Gizmodo.

 

Just more Hate Mongering to incite the Slow witted masses ready to scream Fascist Obama or Ugly American at the slightest hint of scandal. The country has so many real problems and issues, making stuff up and starting stupid rumors like children is all the opposition can Do. Sadly it's working no matter how false the comments and scandals are. In November when they get their way and we are even worse off later, we shall see.

[mmchardy]

If this ends up being a hoax, I'll retract my previous statement with reservation. Still don't like Obama or his policies, but will not fault him or anyone for falsified reports.

 

What "policies" in particular do you not like ? I hear that one alot and HAVE YET to find an answer that is little more that Parrot Commentary.

[Jasko_Denew]

What "policies" in particular do you not like ? I hear that one alot and HAVE YET to find an answer that is little more that Parrot Commentary.

 

The Sean Hannity/Glenn Beck effect

[mmchardy]

The Sean Hannity/Glenn Beck effect

 

Indeed they love those guys and no matter how many times they show "PART of" a speech or comment and take it out of context to spread fear , and then get busted by people that play the ENTIRE video clip and expose them , they still trust these jokers as HONEST and FAIR and Balanced.

 

Then on the Other Side you have the MSNBC crowd that likes to shoot sunshine so much it's sickening. I prefer CNN or Just researching my own facts this way I get real Facts not Biased to one side or another.

[mmchardy]

I find his military reduction to be counter productive, the man has shown he has little to no idea or experience in leading and running military activities, yet he constantly promises the generals and the military fighting his upscale of the war in Afghanistan, then turns around and reduces troop strength and/or materials. His run in with the General staff and rolling stone magazine was just an example of how his relationship with the military is. However General McChrystal was very wrong in his publicly denouncing the president in the way he did.. Insubordination is Insubordination, whether he was right in his ideals or not. That should have been kept behind closed doors.

 

His health care plan to be unconstitutional (a matter of states right to self governance in the designed framework of the constitution why we are a republic not a democracy)

 

His spending 3 trillion dollars to end the recession that is still going on.

 

His inability to close Gitmo, a campaign promise.

 

His lack of any real immigration reform and his offices handing of Arizona simply writing a law that reflects current Federal law, but actually enforcing it.

 

His lack of any leadership or change in terms of public education despite that being a campaign promise and a common topic in his speeches.

 

And basically since his election, despite having a friendly congress and starting with the highest approval rating in the last 20 or 30 years, not being able to effect any real change, which is prob why his approval rating has reflected and why congress is becoming more conservative and less empathetic to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

 

and these are the list of important issues to him according to his own propaganda site. http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

 

I didn't touch on wall street reform, Because... seriously.. why?

 

 

1 . where did you get the 3 Trillion dollar Figure from : That is an Improbable number to spend in one Presidential term : prove your sources

2. Immigration Reform : NO president has made ANY progress on that since 1942

3. Closing Gitmo : Campaign Promise ; well DUH it's a campaign Promise, the realities of closing Guantanamo Bay makes that promise Null, also OH NO a Politician that does not deliver on a Campaign promise HOW SHOCKING .

4. Public Education? What ? Can you be any more Vague , If you mean allocating funds ($100B) to Keep inner city Libraries open, to add upgrades to schools and repairs to others, something he promised an proposed back in 2008 and then delivered in the from of Early Childhood Education spending, his proposal to Make school days longer and Vacation months shorter (like the rest of the world) yeah he dropped the ball there.

5. Friendly congress? Really he came in a pissed off Democrats by not kissing their butts, and then the Republicans Just WERE dead set on saying NO on day one to EVERYTHING he offered.

6. Military Reduction : We have the most modern military in the world, We don't need a huge standing army , we have unparalleled force projection. He has not Reduced anything in Afghanistan, or did you forget he added troops to that fight, he has stepped up Drone and other unmanned recon devices. He has reduced the budget to focus spending on FAT projects like buying 1000 Next Generation Fighter planes, and just a FEW TO MAKE SURE WE DON'T have another OSPREY issue, or the F-22 problems and we spent Billions Buying them, then paid Billions more to have them Fixed by the people who messed them up.

7. Health care : making the point that All people SHOULD have Health insurance , is not meant as a "Car insurance thing" but as "RIGHT" that people should have access to affordable and extensive health care, Granted there are some parts that may infringe on the states ability to govern itself and it would cause strain to budgets, but the cost is much higher to control the problems of High blood pressure, Heart Attacks, Diabetes, High cholesterol, Obesity, all those conditions preventable by routine health checkups ,something almost 40 million people do not have access to and therefore it goes untreated until it becomes a serious problem.

8. Wall street Reform : Why ? Seriously ? Here is Why , When a broker or marginal Buyer is able to influence the the price of stocks that causes a conflict of interest , now add the idea of speculative trading, and one has the chance of creating artificial Bubbles in the markets. (Housing Bubble, .com , Oil over $140 a barrel while there is an Oil surplus) is that not enough reason that there has to be reform to make sure those abuses don't push future economies to where we are now, or even over the edge.

 

Like I said Before every time I hear that "His policies stink" thing I never hear anything new or specific just vague commentary and vapor substantive "evidence"

[Astrus]

GO GO OBAMANATION!!! <--- sarcasm... notice how close Obamanation is to abomination?

Whats ironic is how Tea Party doesnt sound at all like "group full of moronic neanderthals"...but kind of means the same thing at the same time.

 

...anyway. I see in that report that the kid "sent an email to the White House full of abusive and threatening language.". Im not sure if anyone has read our laws but if you threaten our president, citizen or not, there will be consequences.

 

Its the law, and its been that way for a long time.

[Astrus]

My comments in Red.

 

I find his military reduction to be counter productive, the man has shown he has little to no idea or experience in leading and running military activities, yet he constantly promises the generals and the military fighting his upscale of the war in Afghanistan, then turns around and reduces troop strength and/or materials. His run in with the General staff and rolling stone magazine was just an example of how his relationship with the military is. However General McChrystal was very wrong in his publicly denouncing the president in the way he did.. Insubordination is Insubordination, whether he was right in his ideals or not. That should have been kept behind closed doors.

 

As far as his military promises go, hes kept his word. Hes getting out of Iraq, getting back into Afghanistan and focusing our efforts there. Its Congress' job to the tell our military where to fight, its the General's Job to come up w/ the strategy, My take on McChrystal is that he didnt have what it took to get the job done. Since Petraeus has taken over there have been great strides made in Afghanistan.

 

His health care plan to be unconstitutional (a matter of states right to self governance in the designed framework of the constitution why we are a republic not a democracy).

 

Look dude, stop being a *screw*ing dummie, seriously. Whatever congress votes into law is AUTOMATICALLY CONSTITUTIONAL, because the constitution gives congress the right to make law. If you dont like it, get the *screw* out of the country, otherwise stop whining like a bitch and read the constitution. Just because you dont like something doesnt make it unconstitutional.

 

If you're upset w/ what congress is doing, vote them out or storm the congressional hall w/ your guns blazing, but in the meantime, dont say dumb *crap* like "congress/the president just passed an unconstitutional bill", its literally impossible.

 

His spending 3 trillion dollars to end the recession that is still going on.

 

------------------------

Oh ya!! that pesky recession! Lets take a stroll down memory lane check out the chart below:

 

 

Oh would you look at that!!! It looks as if good ol' boy Bush was wrecking our economy and it somehow STARTED getting better once we got the Republican out of office!!....or maybe this is just some OTHER type of "propaganda" coming from the left??

 

You want to blame the recession on someone? Be sure to point the finger in the right direction. And if you dont like that graph, do some searching in these forums and you find information directly from the CBO to verify the above graph. Or you could disagree with it and Ill spoon feed it to you, Glenn Beck/Fox News style, so its easier for your brain to digest.

-------------------------

 

His inability to close Gitmo, a campaign promise.

Im not going to say that Barack has kept every promise hes made because that would be untrue. I think it would be pretty naive to think that any politician could keep all their campaign promises actually. But Ill give you a non-partisan resource you REALLY COULD USE to help you keep Obama accountable for what he says.

 

His lack of any real immigration reform and his offices handing of Arizona simply writing a law that reflects current Federal law, but actually enforcing it.

 

--------------------------

The whole Arizona debacle was blown way out of proportion; mainly to fire up the Tea Party sheeple into a frenzy so that they would come into forums like these and recite GOP talking points word for word. Whats funny is that the story that Jan Brewer told about people being found HEADLESS in the AZ deserts was a real hot point that fired up the Tea Party/GOP base, and to be honest I believed her too and kind of supported her at one point.....

 

...that is until I found out it was a lie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egx9PkSoBEA

 

For the good stuff skip to 2:20..........disgusting. She is a disgusting little bitch, and I hope for AZ's sake that they are smart enough to get her out of office. She will obviously do anything to win.

------------------

 

His lack of any leadership or change in terms of public education despite that being a campaign promise and a common topic in his speeches.

 

Saying that he hasnt shown any leadership just shows how maybe you shouldnt spend your free time talking about politics Latronia....youre just too lazy. In 1-2 minutes you couldve found The U.S. Department of Education American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. My god Latronia he signed it ONE MONTH....ONE *screw*ING MONTH After he was made president!!!!! And that to you isnt showing any leadership?!?!? Its a ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLAR BILL...wow...just..wow.[/i]

 

And basically since his election, despite having a friendly congress and starting with the highest approval rating in the last 20 or 30 years, not being able to effect any real change, which is prob why his approval rating has reflected and why congress is becoming more conservative and less empathetic to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

 

History shows (find the books yourself) that a recession always pits the people against the incumbent/party in governmental power. It really does suck that Obama's presidency will be spent correcting the horrible mistakes of another president. I would honestly have liked to see what he could do if he didnt have to clean up Bush's mess. As far as Obama not changing anything, again, I refer you to the Obameter at politifact.com. Hes actually changed a great portion of our government in a very short amount of time compared to the majority his predecessors.

 

and these are the list of important issues to him according to his own propaganda site. http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

 

I didn't touch on wall street reform, Because... seriously.. why?

Im glad you didnt touch on that, because you might have butchered that topic too.

 

I know there are some very intelligent, objective minded conservatives out there and I would never address them the way I did Latronia above.

 

Im just really done spoon feeding and hand holding Faux News sheeple.

[mmchardy]

Mine will be in Blue

 

 

 

In Closure, Astrus, I simply was answering another member's questions about policies I do not like. I did not wish to explain them at the time or even now, because they were my opinions. I did not look for a political debate. This seems to upset you. Get over it. I made a comment that I said I would be happy to retract should the story be found false because I won't hold the president accountable to flagrant articles. As for the legality, according to the article the drunk idiot called the president a rude name for a wimp, did not threaten him in anyway. That does not hold up to the illegality of threatening the president. Given the information I had at hand and assuming (apparently wrongly) the source credible, It would be unnecessarily harsh to permanently ban someone from this country for calling the president a wimp and if he really cannot take a little of that he's in the wrong job.

 

In opening, you simply put forth more asinine comments and childish innuendo, then you get into a political discussion by saying you disagree with his Policies, then say you were not looking for a political debate. Well when you make political commentary, and pose examples you indeed are IN one.

 

What I commented about was the Obvious flaws in the story, one no U.S. Federal Agency would call a local Police force it would undermine Security in that it would reveal a source of information. It seems like another way of finding something to bludgeon a point home that is unsubstantial, yet has proven effective.

[Astrus]

My responses will be in purple...and Im very sorry I have to do this to you Latronia, but you put your chin out asking for it.

 

My comments in Red.

 

I find his military reduction to be counter productive, the man has shown he has little to no idea or experience in leading and running military activities, yet he constantly promises the generals and the military fighting his upscale of the war in Afghanistan, then turns around and reduces troop strength and/or materials. His run in with the General staff and rolling stone magazine was just an example of how his relationship with the military is. However General McChrystal was very wrong in his publicly denouncing the president in the way he did.. Insubordination is Insubordination, whether he was right in his ideals or not. That should have been kept behind closed doors.

 

As far as his military promises go, hes kept his word. Hes getting out of Iraq, getting back into Afghanistan and focusing our efforts there. Its Congress' job to the tell our military where to fight, its the General's Job to come up w/ the strategy, My take on McChrystal is that he didnt have what it took to get the job done. Since Petraeus has taken over there have been great strides made in Afghanistan.

 

One.. Learn Executive/Legislative and Judicial separation of powers it was elementary school stuff when me and you were school age, probably college now though. The President is Commander in Chief, meaning He leads the Army's He tells them when and where and how to go. He does this based off of options derived by the generals and admirals. Congress budgets the military and prepares declarations of war. The president can use the military as he sees fit and budget allows with the exception of actually declaring war. Police Actions and Assisting Allying nations has become a nice little grey area around the whole declaration thing. Then his word, in Sept 2009 time frame generals and admirals requested a 40,000 man increase in Afghanistan to reverse the apparent losing situation we were involved in there. This number was derived off of war council talking at the white house that included the president and was don't with expectation that he was on board with this amount and the plans He and said council had developed. By Dec that number had dropped to 34,000 then to 30,000. Many in the Military saw this as a betrayal by their own commander in chief who was bending to political pressure by his own party. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/29/AR2009092902932.html http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/01/politics/main5855734.shtml

 

-------------

Elementary school stuff huh? Have you ever even READ the constitution? I mean....that whole wall of text above is pure unadulterated VAPOR, meaningless. Its 1/3 swagger and 2/3 idiocy. Pure guesswork, either of your own fault or the fault dingy shepherd who led YOU to that pasture of retardation.

 

Look dude: Here is a link to the constitution. And Ill spoon feed you; Go to Section 8 and read the part where it says the Congress shall have Power... "To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;" ...Do YOUR HOMEWORK before opening your mouth or typing nonsense.

 

People like YOU are part of the reason politics is muddied and people believe lies....and you know what I believe Im just going to quote what I told the last guy who came in here knowing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT WHAT HE WAS talking about:

 

...with all the above said, You know I really have to touch on a sore spot of mine...People like you.

 

Its people like you:

 

-People who speak before educating themselves on a subject.

-People who muddy down American politics just by trying to join the conversation.

-People who have no academic sense at all who try to be much more than their work ethic will allow them to be.

 

...people like you, who through sheer idiocy or lazyness take a subject and turn it into a Jerry Springer episode, with ignorance of the subject matter alone.

 

The sheer fact that you are typing in these forums shows that you have the capability to research the subject matter but you DIDN'T, yet you try and command respect from me?

 

...you're out of luck and out of your damn mind.

 

People like you, who don't even take out the time to do a 2 minute google/yahoo search before they give their half assed opinions DON'T DESERVE respect IMO.

 

People like you shouldn't LOOK at a politician let alone speak about politics. Why? Because you muddy the conversation with nonsense and rhetoric instead of the facts.

 

So here is some advice I'm sure you wont use; Go research a subject before you speak about it, because you never know who might actually spend the few minutes it takes to educate themselves on the subject matter.

 

After seeing Tea Partiers muddy up politics with their neanderthal, Limbic brained antics, Ill be damned if I let another over sensitive, research impaired .....person.....come in and spray dumb juice on a conversation that they didnt take the time out to study up on before opening their damn mouth.

 

Use Google!

----------------------

 

His health care plan to be unconstitutional (a matter of states right to self governance in the designed framework of the constitution why we are a republic not a democracy).

 

Look dude, stop being a *screw*ing dummie, seriously. Whatever congress votes into law is AUTOMATICALLY CONSTITUTIONAL, because the constitution gives congress the right to make law. If you dont like it, get the *screw* out of the country, otherwise stop whining like a bitch and read the constitution. Just because you dont like something doesnt make it unconstitutional.

 

If you're upset w/ what congress is doing, vote them out or storm the congressional hall w/ your guns blazing, but in the meantime, dont say dumb *crap* like "congress/the president just passed an unconstitutional bill", its literally impossible.

 

1. I spent 8 years in the Marines defending this *screw*ing country WTF have you done? You ever tell me to get out again like I don't have a right to my opinions and I haven't sweated and sacrificed for your right to be a self righteous prick and we'll have personal as well as political issues to work out. Resorting to personal attacks to defend your political position? You used to use facts.

 

Really I'm a *screw*ing dummy? "Whatever congress votes into law is AUTOMATICALLY CONSTITUTIONAL" seriously? http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html read it..

 

Simply put, Congress can regulate interstate economic activity, which is how Medicaid and social security exist. However it cannot mandate individuals purchase goods or services from a private company. Insurance such as auto and health have always been state regulated for this reason. A state can say everyone has to have auto insurance, Congress cannot. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/19/AR2010031901470.html

 

You really think Congress can just write any arbitrary law and it is "AUTOMATICALLY CONSTITUTIONAL" ? With that mentality we'd be in an anarchy by now.

 

------------

#1 Thank you for your service.

#2 You're not infallible just because you've served in the military.

#3 The marines probably has the dumbest of our servicemen, or at least that's what the people who raised me taught me, Go Army.

#4 My wife out shoots most of the marines who go against her in the local long range IPSC competitions here, so if you want to make this personal and come kick my but youll have to get through her first. =D

#5 Go *screw* yourself. You obviously have ABSOLUTELY no idea who I am or what I do in my free time or you would've never even thought to say some dumb *crap* like that lol.

 

Moving on, There is no law that MAKES you buy anything, there is just a law that says if you dont get Health Insurance, you will pay a tax for not having it...and Last I saw in the constitution YOU LINKED "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes,Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;"

 

Ya...its that "general welfare" part that gets the dummies. When you have health insurance companies making record profits on a system where their profit margins are dictated by how much healthcare they DONT GIVE...theres a problem. And about 40,000 people on average are dying a year because thier insurance company wont give them the care they need. Congress did a great thing when they passed that healthcare bill, and that is why Ill more than likely be voting democrat again.

 

You also said "I used to use facts"....you did see the links and what not to my references correct? Or do they not require marines to be literate back when you joined?? Go Army. Also, I pay my taxes and I make sure citizens such as yourself dont ruin our country running around spouting bull*crap*, unchallenged. TBH I think we need more people like me than we need militarymen and women ATM, respectfully. Because people who have no real knowledge of politics, other than what they see on Fox News, are attempting to dominate the conversation, and Ill be damned in hell before I see that happen.

----------------

 

His spending 3 trillion dollars to end the recession that is still going on.

 

------------------------

Oh ya!! that pesky recession! Lets take a stroll down memory lane check out the chart below:

 

http://static.businessinsider.com/image/4bb614577f8b9a1667ae0100/chart-020510-update.gif

 

Oh would you look at that!!! It looks as if good ol' boy Bush was wrecking our economy and it somehow STARTED getting better once we got the Republican out of office!!....or maybe this is just some OTHER type of "propaganda" coming from the left??

 

You want to blame the recession on someone? Be sure to point the finger in the right direction. And if you dont like that graph, do some searching in these forums and you find information directly from the CBO to verify the above graph. Or you could disagree with it and Ill spoon feed it to you, Glenn Beck/Fox News style, so its easier for your brain to digest.

 

Fullback, you got me I did not fact check my number before posting this.. good on you. it wasn't 3 trillion it was a 787 billion dollar stimulus package with a 3.6 trillion dollar budget in his first 100 days. With a deficit increase of almost 1 trillion dollars to set it at about 1.4 trillion. I apologize here is a decent read on his spending policies http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703906204575027181656362948.html and unfortunatly the easiest to read breakdown of government spending vs receipts I have found is at Wikipedia which I generally hate using, but the numbers looked pretty close to the white house's budget listed at several other newsworthy sources. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_federal_budget

 

Astrus Astrus Astrus, I did not say at any point Obama started this recession or that Bush was a good guy. We are in a job based economy, I'll give you that so lets see whats happened in the 2 years He's been in office on the jobfront. http://www.gallup.com/poll/141719/job-creation-remains-level-july.aspx An article on 2008-2010 that examines job creation vs. job loss which really is a better gauge of a tax based free market economy. Which shows that though we are doing better then last year we are still far off par from 2008 at the beginning of the economic collapse.

 

TBH you really shouldn't even be comparing our current economy to 2007-2008 because our economy was literally held up by vapor. Most of the money that was in the market was from people buying homes they couldnt afford and refinancing just to get cash in hand so they could go blow it on creature comforts. Bush literally screwed us out of a decade. Look at the Dow in 2001 and look at it now. Its value is damn near the same Bush really screwed our country and people like you are about to set up the Tea Party/Republican Party to rape this country again.

-------------------------

 

His inability to close Gitmo, a campaign promise.

 

Im not going to say that Barack has kept every promise hes made because that would be untrue. I think it would be pretty naive to think that any politician could keep all their campaign promises actually. But Ill give you a non-partisan resource you REALLY COULD USE to help you keep Obama accountable for what he says.

 

I originally Wrote this as a response to him asking which of Obama's policies I did not like. This was a major part of his positioning during the campaign and Seriously feel he should have made some headway with it in the first 2 years if not the first 100 days. Failing to do so has more of a detrimental effect on how he is perceived then failing to Double the Peace Corps.

 

You conveniently forgot about congresses power again. Obama did what he was supposed to do. ATM congress has the bill stalled, refusing to do anything about it. CLICK HERE for more info, and be sure to read the sources near the bottom of the latest article.

 

His lack of any real immigration reform and his offices handing of Arizona simply writing a law that reflects current Federal law, but actually enforcing it.

 

--------------------------

The whole Arizona debacle was blown way out of proportion; mainly to fire up the Tea Party sheeple into a frenzy so that they would come into forums like these and recite GOP talking points word for word. Whats funny is that the story that Jan Brewer told about people being found HEADLESS in the AZ deserts was a real hot point that fired up the Tea Party/GOP base, and to be honest I believed her too and kind of supported her at one point.....

 

...that is until I found out it was a lie:

 

 

For the good stuff skip to 2:20..........disgusting. She is a disgusting little bitch, and I hope for AZ's sake that they are smart enough to get her out of office. She will obviously do anything to win.

 

When did I say I liked Jan Brewer? Again, just like with saying Bush is at fault for starting the recession.. .I simply stated the US needs to enforce its own immigration laws and used AZ making mirroring laws so they could enforce them themselves is detestable. What other country in the world could someone simply walk across the border, take advantage of the social programs provided and give absolutely nothing back in terms of taxes or civic duty? Not a one. In Europe you'd be immediately deported when discovered, some places spend a very very long time in a very very uncomfortable cell. In many places in Asia, Africa and the Middle East you'd simply be killed. I'm not against immigration, immigrants are an important part of the US economy, I just feel there is a legal process that allows immigrant workers and resident aliens and we should start enforcing it. Illegal immigrants are simply that.. Illegal which is criminal.

 

No one said you liked Brewer, reread what I typed. You were talking about how Obama handled the AZ situation in your Original post. I was stating that the Obama Administration handled it quite well given that bitch lied and created hysteria statewide with her lie about beheadings. As far as his handling of immigration, this AGAIN is something that is still held up in congress. Which means Obama literally has his hands tied, he cant do anything w/o their approval. Read here for more info.

 

And while we are on the subject of Immigration heres a little food for thought: Did you know that Obama is actually more conservative than RONALD REAGAN when it comes to immigration? The Proof is below:

 

Reagan on Amnesty:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjheHD-dhpY&NR=1

 

Obama on Amnesty:

Its 34 minutes long, but in there youll see that he actually says that people who are here illegally should be "punished". lol

 

Im on the FAR right on this issue. I think they should all be kicked out if they are here illegally.

------------------

 

His lack of any leadership or change in terms of public education despite that being a campaign promise and a common topic in his speeches.

 

Saying that he hasn't shown any leadership just shows how maybe you shouldn't spend your free time talking about politics Latronia....you're just too lazy. In 1-2 minutes you couldn't found The U.S. Department of Education American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. My god Latronia he signed it ONE MONTH....ONE *screw*ING MONTH After he was made president!!!!! And that to you isn't showing any leadership?!?!? Its a ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLAR BILL...wow...just..wow.[/i]

 

So.. yeah ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS, he sure can spend money huh? Here's the leadership part... How has it helped public education in the US? last year it helped states ward off laying off teachers, increased class sizes and cutting programs. To this year. It wasn't a fix, it was a delay. While he does speak about education a lot and it does seem to be a very high priority for him, nationwide public education is still declining.Our own state is a fine example, but look at any newspaper to see their really isn't' a state out there that isn't cutting into education heavily. He's good at talking though isn't' he?

 

All that bull*crap* you just typed was pure opinion. No facts. You pretty much admitted that he is concerned about our countries education. It takes money to educate, thats why money was spent. No matter what our government does to help encourage our economy to do better, its going to be the ingenuity of the American people that make our economy better, and the ONLY way that will happen is if they are well educated. And I mean REAL education, not theGlenn Beck University bull*crap* where he scares you to death with his "education" and then points you to the nearest phone to buy gold because everything is falling apart.

 

On your "He's good at talking" point. The word you were looking for is SPEAKING not TALKING, but I digress; The last guy we had as president who didn't have a command of the english language gave us the worst recession since the great depression. So you vote for folks who are at your grammatical level, and Ill vote against them.

 

And basically since his election, despite having a friendly congress and starting with the highest approval rating in the last 20 or 30 years, not being able to effect any real change, which is prob why his approval rating has reflected and why congress is becoming more conservative and less empathetic to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

 

History shows (find the books yourself) that a recession always pits the people against the incumbent/party in governmental power. It really does suck that Obama's presidency will be spent correcting the horrible mistakes of another president. I would honestly have liked to see what he could do if he didnt have to clean up Bush's mess. As far as Obama not changing anything, again, I refer you to the Obameter at politifact.com. Hes actually changed a great portion of our government in a very short amount of time compared to the majority his predecessors.

 

Well, the people weren't against him despite the recession for well over a year.

 

The "people" still arent against him, just the Tea Party trash.

 

and these are the list of important issues to him according to his own propaganda site. http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

 

I didn't touch on wall street reform, Because... seriously.. why?

 

Im glad you didnt touch on that, because you might have butchered that topic too.

 

I didn't touch it cause there hasn't been any real change to wall street yet. It was July 15'th when the wall street reform bill passed both houses and hasn't' really had time to see its actual effects on the private sector so I'm holding judgment in that area.

 

I know there are some very intelligent, objective minded conservatives out there and I would never address them the way I did Latronia above.

 

Im just really done spoon feeding and hand holding Faux News sheeple.

 

In Closure, Astrus, I simply was answering another member's questions about policies I do not like. I did not wish to explain them at the time or even now, because they were my opinions. I did not look for a political debate. This seems to upset you. Get over it. I made a comment that I said I would be happy to retract should the story be found false because I won't hold the president accountable to flagrant articles. As for the legality, according to the article the drunk idiot called the president a rude name for a wimp, did not threaten him in anyway. That does not hold up to the illegality of threatening the president. Given the information I had at hand and assuming (apparently wrongly) the source credible, It would be unnecessarily harsh to permanently ban someone from this country for calling the president a wimp and if he really cannot take a little of that he's in the wrong job.

 

I get it, so youre saying Obama doesnt have thick skin. Well, remember these that were sent out after Obama was elected? Some of them were even sent out BY Republican congressmen and women?:

 

 

....ya...I think his skin is pretty thick. As far as the foreigner goes, if hes dumb enough to threaten the president "which is what every article Im seeing says he did." then good riddance.

 

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

 

Look Latronia I don't really like you.

 

The comments you made were incendiary and full of Tea Party bull*crap* talking points. You dont know your constitution well, and its sad because you were a Marine and youd think a Marine would know the constitution. Especially since the constitution isn't the bible, and its pretty easy to grasp. At the very least you'd think a Marine would double check what he types.

 

Im sick and tired of people like you who muddy up political discussion. Take notes from Tony Blair. THAT guy knows how to be a conservative and have an educated discussion with all of his ducks in a row, and reference material at the ready. Be sure to watch part 2.

 

Ill end my post with a quote from Jasko:

 

It really should not come as a surprise to anyone that Astrus likes to debate with factual backup. It's not as if he hasn't done it before.

 

Example 1 - http://www.sanct-guild.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5788&view=findpost&p=44370

Example 2 - http://www.sanct-guild.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5788&view=findpost&p=44367

 

I once remarked that would make a great schoolteacher, because his posts often have more red marks on them that my 8th grade math tests. He even had an explanation for that:

 

http://www.sanct-guild.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5788&view=findpost&p=44378

 

If you want to debate, it has to be backed up with facts, plain and simple. It's very frustrating to debate a person who just types and types and types without any reference to where he/she is getting the info from. You can take it as talking down, get personal and get a little "Arrabiata" ("Hot under the collar") but the fact is if you want to debate the man, back it up.

 

This is one of the primary reasons I don't get into debates with him. I hated research in college, I hate it now in graduate school, and I hate it here on the forums. However, if you want to debate him, have your facts in hand.

[Jasko_Denew]

Whoa.....Double Rainbow all the way!

[Astrus]

Ok So lets get all your talking points in a nice little short section here and see how you fared; and also illustrate the reason why you should have started Googling BEFORE you made your Original posts:

 

#1"I find his military reduction to be counter productive, the man has shown he has little to no idea or experience in leading and running military activities" You even went so far as to say that Obama looks as if he is BETRAYING the armed forces. Let's see how the facts back you up.:

 

Petraeus's Surge is working. Just like it did in Iraq. (On a side note that dude is a MOTHER F'ing HERO I love that guy.) And its working because hes not General McChrystal. My original point was that Obama doesn't make fine strategy, The generals do. Its one of the main reasons why Patton is as famous as he is, because people back then knew that Generals made the majority of strategic decisions. However I never said that the President doesn't make wartime decisions. I also said that its congresses job to tell us where to fight, also read; DECLARE WAR. Sure if the president wants war somewhere he can suggest it, but without congress approval, he/she gets nothing. All that BS you typed about what the president does is meaningless given that I never said anything about what the president does or doesn't do. You even said "The president can use the military as he sees fit and budget allows with the exception of actually declaring war." So if he cant declare war then WTF are you talking about. There can be no war if its not declared....right? lol

 

Its funny how SOON after McChrystal is replaced, we start seeing results. McChrystal wasn't the man for the job obviously. Things weren't going well, he couldn't come up w/ answers so he started getting pissed at the boss. Then again its hard to match up to Petraeus. You gave your opinion, but team Petraeus/Obama is working. You were factually WRONG.

 

#2 The health care plan is NOT unconstitutional I think we've both linked the constitution and I personally cited Congresses ability to make tax law. If you "feel" forced to buy health insurance for yourself then that's your feeling. But lawfully; you are penalized for not buying insurance, not forced to buy it. And to be honest, any REAL conservative tax payer in their right mind wouldn't be pissed about a deficit reducing bill that actually makes America healthier in the process. The Health care bill in my opinion is genius and actually makes being an American citizen even that much better. You also said "The government cant mandate purchasing products from a private company" WHEN congress has NEVER said that you had to buy ANYTHING from any private company, you still get to choose, or be taxed. And the whole REASON you're being taxed is because if YOU DON'T have health care, your medical bills will have to be paid by the American people (because we dont refuse care in this country in emergency rooms remember?). You gave your opinion, but you were factually WRONG.

 

#3 You said Obama spent 3 trillion dollars and even made a biased reference to how much money Obama spent on and I gave you proof, on wall street and main street that our economy is getting better BECAUSE of the spending and you gave me a Gallup poll that RELIES ON personal POLLING DATA from workers of the company, not conference calls or quarterly/yearly reports, BUT PERSONAL POLLING DATA.....the same kind of data that predicted Obama would loose the 08 election. ROFLMAO...jokes...pure jokes. Just like that joke website you linked "usgovernmentspending.com" who is ran by Chris Chantrill who is a columnist at a EXTREMELY Right Biased website called American Thinker; so please don't link obviously BIASED number sources that only agree w/ your Tea Party talking points, otherwise you're just another Faux News puppet.

 

Oh btw did you know that Obama only increased that 3.6 TRILLION dollar budget by 780 billion in his first 100 days??? Ya it seems you kind of left that part out or was ignorant to it.

 

Ya 2.8 trillion of that was already there, and what Obama added to it had to be added to shore up our economy. A decision that has decreased job losses, stabilized our dollar, and brought the Dow from 6500 to 10k in a few months time. The facts dont agree with your opinion AGAIN.

 

Anyone who has spent anytime researching America's economic history knows that we spent our way out of the great depression. "ROFL ASTRUS YOURE DUMB, THE WAR GOT US OUT!!! lol!?" Yes, but guess what, a soldier gets paid, and who do they get paid by?; The government. Which meant the government had to spend money. Thank God we dont have a WW2 on our hands, but the foundational truth of the matter is that we spent our way out of it and thank God our country was economically strong enough to bare that burden. Yes it took us awhile to start paying that off (Under Clinton) but we were on our way....that is until Bush/Cheney.

 

History says you are WRONG about spending being a bad idea (not to mention Geithner, Obama, Goolsby, Bernanke, Buffet, Gates, Tilson and other people much smarter than you disagree with you). Your OPINION is noted. But again You are WRONG.

 

#4 Gitmo - You want Obama to fail. We get it. Even though I gave you proof that the guy did his due diligence, and is waiting for Congress to get off their asses and get that particular job done, you dont care. Actually you do care; more about how he is perceived than what kind of job hes actually trying to do.

 

I originally Wrote this as a response to him asking which of Obama's policies I did not like. This was a major part of his positioning during the campaign and Seriously feel he should have made some headway with it in the first 2 years if not the first 100 days. Failing to do so has more of a detrimental effect on how he is perceived then failing to Double the Peace Corps.

 

Whats more important to you? How Obama is percieved or if he is trying his best to make due on his promises? The previous questions were rhetorical of course.

 

#5 "His lack of any real immigration reform and his offices handing of Arizona simply writing a law that reflects current Federal law, but actually enforcing it." - You ignored my point

and pass a law which is MUCH stronger than the federal anti-immigration laws. The AZ law is actually had a clause in it that gave citizens the right to SUE THE STATE if LOCAL POLICE didnt ask any "suspected immigrant" for their papers. WTF IS A "Suspected Immigrant" anyway???

 

The AZ law is so bad that the same Federal Governement (You know...the same guys who made the Immigration law that you said AZ's law was mimic'ing??) IS SUEING ARIZONA for passage of THEIR Immigration LAW lol...... So saying that the lying governor of a state was enforcing "federal law" was absolutely ridiculous and another example of where you WERE WRONG.

 

#6 "His lack of any leadership or change in terms of public education despite that being a campaign promise and a common topic in his speeches." I gave you proof that he acted on education less than ONE MONTH after he was made president and you gave me nothing but bull*crap* opinions. I live in the same state you do, unfortunately, and since Obama came into office I have seen the honors courses that were literally ripped up and discarded under "no child left behind" come back and now my daughter can actually be challenged while she is in school.

 

My experience with Washington state schools has been much better since they decided to actually try and balance our school budgets on a federal level. Because remember No child left behind WASN'T PAID FOR....IT WASN'T PAID for dude....so you are WRONG AGAIN, in trying to blame Obama or reference his "lack of leadership" when he has shown MORE fiscal leadership on the education front than Bush did.

 

#7 You wanted this fight. You came in here talking about Obamanation = abomination passive aggressively, and then you say that you weren't being incendiary??? Then you wonder why are people so upset?? Why? Because a few posts later AFTER YOU equate Obama w/ an abomination, you say you agree with him on <Insert points that I agree with Obama on so I don't look like the highly partisan, Faux News Parrot, who just a few posts ago passively called Obama an abomination>....pathetic. YOU WERE WRONG in saying you weren't incendiary, when you started your conversation calling the president an abomination.

 

----------------

....So now YOURE the victim huh? looool. Im BULLYING you THE MARINE right? lol...nice way to try and spin this dude.

----------------

 

GO GO OBAMANATION!!! <--- sarcasm... notice how close Obamanation is to abomination?

 

When you say stuff like this above, and then bet on no one calling you out, you're going to lose that bet most of the time. I know you don't have alot of Democrats out in good ol' Mukilteo but the VAST majority of your state is democrat (and WILL swing to Obama in 2012 whether you like it or not. I mean, we haven't had a Republican Gov, since 1980 I believe, but I digress.) so it makes sense that you would say something like that and be used to no one calling you out.

 

I don't react to everyone the way I did you. For example Awhile back Zhiv had some issues with Obama and I approached him much differently than I did you. Mainly because he didnt come in here sounding like a Faux News parrot. He had very personal concerns about Obama's agenda and the conversation was not at ALL like the one Ive had with you...

 

But theres a stark difference between who you are and Zhiv.:

 

You're Matt Drudge

You're Michelle Bachmann

You're Sarah Palin

You're Glenn Beck

You're Bill Oreilly

You're Steve Doosey

You're Sean Hannity

You're Dick Armey

You're Dick (f'ing) Cheney

You're RUSH LIMBAUGH

 

You just want the guy to fail, hence the abomination jab and every other half *bad word*ed point you came up w/ afterward, and you will try and and spin any factual evidence anyone gives you into "Obama is a failure". You did it in Ventrilo when I talked to you, and you do it here. Most people wont give a damn about your political opinion when you start the conversation off insulting our president outright.

 

The numbered material above is proof that you came in here half *bad word*ed, and not ready to have your bull*crap* confronted, just like most Anti-Obama dumb asses. Most of your last post I didn't care to read because that's just too much garbage to sift through and I just don't have the time to be bothered honestly.

 

The last part of your post is pathetic really. You came into the post with fists swinging now youre the victim?? You were really wrong on 95% of your claims dude. Next time dont start the conversation with insults.

 

GO GO OBAMANATION!!! <--- sarcasm... notice how close Obamanation is to abomination?

[Zhiv]

You just want the guy to fail, hence the abomination jab and every other half *bad word*ed point you came up w/ afterward, and you will try and and spin any factual evidence anyone gives you into "Obama is a failure". You did it in Ventrilo when I talked to you, and you do it here. Most people wont give a damn about your political opinion when you start the conversation off insulting our president outright.

 

The numbered material above is proof that you came in here half *bad word*ed, and not ready to have your bull*crap* confronted, just like most Anti-Obama dumb asses. Most of your last post I didn't care to read because that's just too much garbage to sift through and I just don't have the time to be bothered honestly.

 

The last part of your post is pathetic really. You came into the post with fists swinging now youre the victim?? You were really wrong on 95% of your claims dude. Next time dont start the conversation with insults.

 

 

 

 

Um...as a Marine, or any military person for that matter, aren't you sworn to follow the orders of those higher in the command chain than you? And aren't you sworn to defend this country and it's territories? Because it sounds like to me that you don't like this country or it's president. And I will give you the right to an opinion. Heck, I have to. For I'm sure you'll spout something about it from the Constitution, that you're sworn to defend. But let me ask you this. If you don't like the state of the country, or the President, or his policies...what have you personally done to fix those issues, I mean rather than spout off at the mouth?

 

Instead of trying to sway the public with your lies and skewed truths, why don't you just do your damned, patriotic job and serve this country and let the thinkers deal with the issues that this country face?

 

Oh, and before you get off that high horse and try to say that you serve your country my serving in the military, we all thank you for your service. But that service doesn't allow you to be another Faux News reporter that only spews what they think is right. Like Astrus told me, and many others, get the facts straight if you desire to have a semi-intelligent convo in this world.

[Astrus]

FYI, Shawkorrr informed me that "Latronia" hasnt been an active member in this guild for over a year. I dont mind having these convo's but i guess it spilled over into him upsetting other people so he has been banned from forums and ALL of his posts removed.

 

We figure if youre going to be a partisan tool in our forums, at least be an active part of the guild.